BULLS Haps 16/17

Discussion in 'Sports Haps' started by IWMB, Oct 15, 2016.

  1. zmz
    Online

    zmz By the Banks of the River Chicago

    It's going to happen.
    y2chae likes this.
  2. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    Jimmy was worth 17.35 wins to the Bulls last year.

    Porzingis was worth 6.54 to the Knicks.

    Steph Curry was worth 18.80 to the Warriors.

    I think I'll stick with Butler.
  3. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    I think advanced stats are great but in basketball they are a little more misleading than baseball. Basketball win shares are based on the number of wins your team actually wins, unlike baseball WAR which is based on individual performance and converted to a wins metric. Curry's win shares are down because he splits those numbers with a far superior talented team. I don't think you actually think Curry is '1.45 wins' better than Jimmy, or that they hold similar value in the NBA.

    Jimmy's win shares are high because he's the most talented player by far on an average team. Porzingis wins shares are low because he plays on an awful Knicks team that didn't win a lot.

    We know what Jimmy Butler is. When he's the best player on your team with middling talent you are a 8th seed team. Or maybe you surround him with a couple other guys slightly below his level and you become a 4th seed. Either way, you don't really accomplish much. Plus, he's aging and by the time his deal is up he will either want to move on or you'll be forced to sign him to a bad deal where he won't be as productive in his age 30 to 34 seasons.

    Butler is going to have the best career for any player that's played for the Bulls in their prime since Jordan. Obviously it would've been Rose if he managed to stay healthy but he didn't. And Butler is a good player that can help a championship team, which is why the Cavs wanted him. But on the Cavs he'd be their 3rd best player. It's like the White Sox, the Bulls need to reset and rebuild. Unless Jimmy is some master recruiter and can get the best free agents from the 2018 class next year to come play for the Bulls, I don't see the Bulls going anywhere with him as the franchise leader.

    Of course, it also starts at the top, the Bulls aren't going anywhere with GarPax running the show.
  4. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    No, I don't think Jimmy is a similar value to Curry.

    You kind of hit on my thinking, that GarPax are unable to rebuild this team. They clearly could not build a winner around Jimmy, and he's easily the best player the Bulls have had since Jordan. However, I'm not willing to just give him away for anybody.

    That being said, say Minnesota offers us Wiggins and the #7, plus salary dumps, for Butler and Rondo... I'm all over that trade. I just want to make sure the Bulls get multiple assets for Jimmy, as they aren't going to get a player of his caliber again anytime soon, so his value must be maximized if you truly are going to try and rebuild.

    I have no doubts that whatever they choose to do, GarPax will fail miserably.
  5. maurice
    Offline

    maurice Gangster of Love

    That's Porzingis's ceiling IMO. The best big men in the league all had early vacations this year.

    Looks like he might be going to the Celtics anyway.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  6. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    Porzingis isn't just anybody though. He's already a good rim protector and it's actually his offense that needs some polish, which I think is better than the other way around. He's willing to play defense and he just needs to develop a little more skill on offense. He's 7'2" and can shoot 3's pretty well already at age 22. I'll take a chance at his upside right now. Players like him rarely are up for trade, and for good reason.

    The Knicks are almost certainly going to get better offers than Jimmy for Porzingis. I would also like multiple assets back but given the choice of being a 41 win team with Jimmy or tanking with Porzingis as the centerpiece, I'll choose the latter.
  7. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    We also have to remember Porzingis was on a stupid team that didn't really want him shooting 3's. Phil Jackson's dumbass even complimented him for not taking a 3 for an entire game. Given the fact that Marc Gasol was able to adapt his game to adding 3's late in his career, I'm willing to take the flier on Porzingis that maybe he can become an elite 3 point shooter if a team wants him to actually develop that skill.

    Not saying he can be Dirk or Durant, but tall guys shooting 3's well is a good thing to have in today's NBA.
  8. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    I'm not sure Porzingis can ever give you more than 70 games in a season, including the playoffs. If he can, maybe he's worth it.
  9. maurice
    Offline

    maurice Gangster of Love

    I'll buy the Marc Gasol comp. All I'm saying is that Marc in his prime along side a quite good PG in his prime gets you 43-39 and a 1st round exit.
  10. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod



    If that's the trade, GarPax should be fired immediately.
  11. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    Done deal. What a fucking joke.

  12. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    Apparently we don't keep the 16th pick. Just a travesty of a trade.
  13. Cheeses
    Online

    Cheeses The canvas can do miracles Cupcake Mod

    Should be a fun season next year!
    Ziggy and IWMB like this.
  14. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    I have no intentions of watching the Bulls again until GarPax are fired.
    Ziggy and Cheeses like this.
  15. BeviBall
    Offline

    BeviBall No wallet. No crack. Not me.

    This team was dead to me the moment we traded for McDerfag. Glad to see it's still the same fucking shit.
    Team Speed likes this.
  16. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    And they drafted a white guy from Finland with the #7 pick.
  17. sycked
    Offline

    sycked If you loved me, you'd all kill yourselves today.

    Seems like a move just to make a move...
  18. Prope
    Offline

    Prope RIP soxwon

    See you in 2025!
  19. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    I'll just be a Warriors fan for awhile.
  20. BeviBall
    Offline

    BeviBall No wallet. No crack. Not me.

    And then they take Markkanen!!! What a colossal POS franchise. Kid is a good player but not what the Bulls need. Whatever.
  21. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

  22. maurice
    Offline

    maurice Gangster of Love

    My kids can name every player on the Warriors but possibly zero guys who will be on the Bulls 2017-18 roster.

    :GarPaxDifference:
  23. Prope
    Offline

    Prope RIP soxwon

  24. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    Should have made him the GM...
  25. maurice
    Offline

    maurice Gangster of Love

    Chae wanted Butler traded for a big, young, northern euro 3-point shooter.
    :missionaccomplished:

    No point keeping Wade around or anybody else over the age of 30 unless they like Rondo as a backup/coach. Just play the kids and shoot 20+ 3s every game.

    1 - Dunn - Rondo - Grant
    2 - LaVine - Valentine
    3 - Zipser - ???
    4 - Markkanen - Portis?
    5 - Lopez - Felicio - Lauvergne?

    Who's attainable as a FA?
  26. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    They don't have a choice with Wade. Player option, and he's taking that cash.
  27. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    I'd trade Lopez, decline on Rondo, pass on Niko and Felicio, and just tank away. #TheProcess
  28. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    Don't mind the trade at all. Finally these fuckers choose a plan and make a move that makes sense. A contrast from picking up all these players that made no sense- MCW, Payne, Wade, Rondo.

    Of course last year they made a trade we were all happy with getting rid of Rose for Lopez and Grant and then they signed Wade and Rondo in free agency. Just hope they don't give Andre Iguodala like 2 years and $50 million.

    I don't like having to trade the 16th pick... I find it hard to believe Thibs would hold up the trade for that. But I guess it's a minor gripe.

    At the end of the deal, they got the best deal available. The Celtics wouldn't give up #3 or the Nets pick next year. The Knicks were apparently asking the Celtics for #3, the Nets picks, Jaylen Brown and Jae Crowder for Porzingis.

    All 3 guys they got back are young, athletic types that can shoot 3's. Finally something that at least makes sense. Hiring a coach and getting the players that fit his pace and space style.
    Prope and maurice like this.
  29. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    You have to gut this team of all the sunk cost (fallacies) on the roster. Payne, MCW, Rondo, Lauvergne, Mirotic. Lucikly you can get just rid yourself of MCW and Mirotic by not giving them a qualifying offer. Rondo's contract is not guaranteed and Lauvergne is a straight up free agent. Payne is the only guy under contract. I'd see if you can trade a second round pick for him. Wade will be here because his contract is so big. Maybe they will buy him out in March and he'll go join the Cavs. Lopez is a trade chip with value to get even younger. I would like to bring back Felicio but based on some other team isn't offering him something stupid like $8 million a year.

    Dunn/Grant
    LaVine/Valentine
    Zipser
    Markkanen/Portis
    Felicio

    Bulls are obviously thin at 3 and 5 with this roster. Otto Porter might make sense but someone is going to give him a max deal. And the Wizards can match any offer. Other than that no one else sticks out except getting possible role players and glue guy types on short term deals to have enough room in 2018 for free agents.

    Most important thing right now is probably to position the team to bad enough to be a player for the Michael Porter Jr lottery.
  30. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    Paul George to Celtics for #3, Jae Crowder and Avery Bradley.
  31. zmz
    Online

    zmz By the Banks of the River Chicago

    Tweeted from a fake account.
    sycked likes this.
  32. Ziggy
    Offline

    Ziggy I Can Get Laid in Germany

    GarPax LOL.

    When I saw that those fucktards wanted to trade Butler in order to help Hoiberg that just confirmed what we already knew about them. This front office is Kings/Knicks level. Love seeing them get another PG in Dunn (another Reinsdorf team bringing in a Dunn :cagelaff:) who can't shoot. Bulls management just loves shitty shooting perimeter players.
  33. Ziggy
    Offline

    Ziggy I Can Get Laid in Germany

    SABR with a :shithead: moment
  34. Team Speed
    Offline

    Team Speed Well-Known Member

    Feels like you could have gotten more for Jimmy so the return is disappointing. Would have liked a higher pick but you can't make teams higher up trade with you.

    Anyways, lose 60 games each of the next two years and lets go from there. Nothing else you can do.
  35. Team Speed
    Offline

    Team Speed Well-Known Member

    Also GarPax should have been fired many, many times.

    It's a complete joke they are going to be the ones doing the "rebuild".

    Spoiler alert - barring draft luck it will fail.
  36. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    Would be such a GarPax thing to luck into the #1 pick again
  37. zmz
    Online

    zmz By the Banks of the River Chicago

    The McDermott trade was absolute rock bottom. They even gave up a draft pick...holy shit do they suck
    maurice likes this.
  38. zmz
    Online

    zmz By the Banks of the River Chicago

  39. Team Speed
    Offline

    Team Speed Well-Known Member

    878078236780937218 is not a valid tweet id


    Jimmy's trainer
    Ziggy and Cheeses like this.
  40. whitesox901
    Offline

    whitesox901 Banjo and Kazui's great adventure

    :cutler:

    This franchise.
  41. Prope
    Offline

    Prope RIP soxwon

    Ivan Rabb would have been a lottery pick (possibly top 10) if he came out last year.

    The lesson: drop out of school kids.
  42. y2chae
    Online

    y2chae Panda

    The trading off the second round pick during a rebuild for cash makes no sense to me. Fucking GarPax.
  43. BeviBall
    Offline

    BeviBall No wallet. No crack. Not me.

    Actually don't mind it because that pick sucked ass. Juwan Evans, who went next, would've been nice but who needs a PG of the future anyway?
  44. Team Speed
    Offline

    Team Speed Well-Known Member

    Listened to the GarPax press conference. Don't know why I did that to myself.
  45. SABRSox
    Offline

    SABRSox Hollywood Mega-Hunk Bob Balaban Cupcake Mod

    Ah well. I got so angry I didn't bother to check if that twitter account was genuine.

    :gar:
  46. Ziggy
    Offline

    Ziggy I Can Get Laid in Germany

    Are you referring to him going to OKC along with Rise of Taj in which they not only picked up players with negative value in Payne, Joffery, and Morrow, but had to give up a draft pick as well? I'd say the Jimmy Buckets trade combined with dealing a draft pick for money surpasses that one.






    Go Wolves. :shithead: needs to approve a :wolveschad: tag
  47. Team Speed
    Offline

    Team Speed Well-Known Member

    I think he's talking about trading up to draft Doug
  48. skottyj
    Offline

    skottyj Owner of Many Baseball Hats

    When does the schedule come out?
  49. IWMB
    Offline

    IWMB Resident Umpire

  50. skottyj
    Offline

    skottyj Owner of Many Baseball Hats

    Will have to make a trip to Minnesota again.

Share This Page